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Subject: Built By Brokenness
Date: November 9, 2000 Return to Chat Archive Menu
Our first question for the topic of "Built By Brokenness"....
cwt 1. Does brokenness have to include suffering?
surefaith yes, I think so...........
cwt I do too
surefaith Jesus suffered.............
Shey I would think so
cwt Can you expand .... or do you know of a time when someone has been broken without suffering.
cwt Those times in the desert when we feel so incredibly alone and in pain - it is there that we sometimes make our toughest choices in life.
surefaith true.............
............................ Erin joined.............
surefaith hi Erin........
cwt Hi Erin .... welcome - we are discussing the process of being built by brokeness
Erin
cwt Have any of you experienced a time where you felt completely broken.
surefaith what was the last question cwt?
buffy gone back to pchat and talk to marcy
buffy please pray f or her
buffy she ran away
buffy and she always talks to me every nite right here
surefaith I will keep her in my prayers buffy.
cwt "Lord we pray for Marcy ... obviously she is going through a very tough time - and there is a lot of pain and brokeness ... I ask that you protect and bring her back to you."
buffy abou God, her life etc
surefaith yes Jesus......
buffy gone to pchat
buffy yes we do
buffy but she is in private chat waiting to talk to me
cwt Surefaith .... in the area of brokeness ....
surefaith buffy........the other christian chats are good too.....like the sanctuary.....
surefaith yes cwt..........
buffy and she is upset and has run a way
buffy yes
buffy gotta go
cwt What is God's purpose to brokeness?
surefaith bye buffy
cwt Surefaith - do you know these women?
surefaith Maybe to make us stronger.....
surefaith no......I dont know them
surefaith and to trust Him in spite of it all.....
cwt I think when we encounter brokeness - we encounter a time to make choices. What do you think those choices are?
Shey I think sometimes we need to be broken so that we will grow in the right direction
cwt For example - to trust God or to trust our own abilities?
cwt to turn bitter or better?
surefaith very good ........
cwt When we encounter complete brokeness .... I believe there is a period that is so very black ... where we either tune into ourselves - or receive hope in Christ.
surefaith but it is sometime forced on us to make bad choices.........if that makes sense.
cwt Perhaps not all people experience brokeness in this way.
cwt Yes ... I think that does make sense.
cwt We pick the better of two evils ... and sometimes we know that it still is not the right thing.
surefaith very true.
cwt I believe though that as we trust God ... He can turn wherever we are into something positive (but not always in our eyes)
cwt What God sees as good and positive - may not be the way we see it in the situation we happen to be in.
cwt Perspective and time can change how we look at brokeness.
surefaith I certainly hope that is true.
Shey but He can see that big picture
cwt He sure can ..
surefaith I would like to think I am stronger as a person too....not just as a christian
cwt So .... when we are broken - we feel all kinds of things ... let's brainstorm for a bit ....what are some of those things.
surefaith as a result of trials
surefaith anger.......
cwt doubt
cwt hopelessness
Shey helpless
surefaith desserted by God.........
surefaith yes hopelessness.
Shey completely out of control
surefaith depression.........
cwt (sorry I had a call)
Shey not sure where to turn or go
cwt bitter
surefaith hurt
cwt Do you think in the heat of the moment we feel "this could be good for us"?
cwt I know I usually don't.
surefaith no
Shey not usually
cwt However, when I look back over life ... all the major growing times in my life happened during times like that.
cwt Interesting? isn't it?
surefaith yes........but when it affects ones health do you really feel that is God?
cwt Do you think we can grow if we can't yield to God in our brokeness?
Shey for me I feel like ok I get it now make life good again
surefaith that is a difficult one
cwt No .... I am not talking about God doing things to us .... I am talking about how do we turn to God and make the most He could help us make out of those situations.
Shey you probably won't grow as much as you could
cwt There are always going to be difficulties and calamities that we cannot control. Things that are terribly unfair.
cwt Each night when you turn on the news - the disasters are overwhelming ... those are real lives being wrecked
cwt That is also only a tiny portion of the people in the world who are hurting.
surefaith I guess we have to trust Him in spite of everything and let our faith grow in spite of circumstances.
surefaith and look to Him only.
cwt Yet - I firmly believe that no matter what it is we are encountering - we experience a time when we decide whether or not to yield ourselves to Christ despite the difficulty of our situation.
cwt I think our faith grows because of (instead of inspite of) our circumstances. ... what do you think?
cwt I am always reminded of Peter walking on the water. It took everything in him to look up to Christ in faith even though nature told him that he would truly sink.
surefaith that is probably the way to look at it.....more at a positive angle.....
cwt What Christ asked him to do was totally impossible.
cwt Yet - in a way - it was so simple - "look up and believe"
cwt Our difficulties can seem totally impossible .... but to actually physically take our eyes off the difficulty of the circumstances and to look up is also difficult
cwt That is what we have to do ..... put our eyes on Christ ... and once we have done that part ... God does the rest.
cwt With brokeness .... I think the reward of the terrible anguish and pain comes when we finally do look up.
cwt Sometimes we can lose all hope and nearly perish in our emotions .... then a renewed perspective in Christ can totally change how we see the situation - and yet outwardly - nothing changes.
cwt So .... how do we deal with those emotions of brokeness that we mentioned earlier?
cwt When we feel despair, anger, etc.?
cwt I know I talked to a woman today who was feeling all of these things.
surefaith look to Christ......
cwt She also felt incredible guilt that she couldn't spend much time with God.
surefaith guilt is horrible
Shey I think we need to work througth them and figure out what makes us feel the way we do
cwt I encouraged her that when we go through those deep valleys, Satan loves to make us feel incredibly guilty for things like not reading the Bible enough.
cwt That isn't what God wants.
cwt He even promises that when our hurt is too deep for words the Spirit intercedes for us. Isn't that incredible?
surefaith yes
Shey we need to acknowledge that we need help
cwt I think it is good to share those feelings with someone and ask them to pray.
cwt Don't try and carry all those things alone ... don't try and pretend that you don't feel those things.
surefaith but some christians de-christianize you for feeling that way.
surefaith my pastor told me I was just negative.
cwt I know ....
cwt That is so totally not right!
surefaith it was odd.....because he is so negative himself........
cwt We have a choice to let those kind of discouragers influence us ... or we can rise up those feelings.
surefaith my church made him leave and told him to get counseling........
Shey sometimes getting your feelings our helps you to see past them
cwt I think legalism and "you should" type of Christianity does so much damage.
surefaith definitely.............
cwt I don't see any of that in how Christ lived His life on the earth.
cwt In fact - more often than not - He went against the grain of the rules and legalism of their culture and religion
surefaith they portray Christ differently though in thoses churches......
cwt You know in John 15 ...Jesus talks about pruning fruitbearing branches so they can be more fruitful.
............................ witt joined.............
cwt So there are times when we think we are doing our best and yet we experience setbacks, failures, and broken dreams.
cwt Hi witt
cwt God may be pruning an already fruitful branch to make it more effective.
Shey that can be painful but necessary and good
cwt We are talking about the process of being Built by Brokeness
cwt The whole aspect of "the vine and the pruning analogy in scripture"
cwt What about the aspect of "A time for Brokeness" Is this intended to be a way of life?
cwt I don't think so ... it has a beginning and an end. However, while you are in the midst of it - it might seem like an eternity.
cwt Do you think there are unique times that we can speed up the process by readily surrendering to what God wants in our life?
cwt I also think that you cannot always rush brokeness.... Job sure couldn't.
surefaith yes......
cwt Sometimes in our "feel-good" society, our tendency is to help people get happy as quickly as possible.
Shey I think you can slow it down by not obeying but I'm not sure about speeding it up
cwt Even in the church we can thwart spiritual growth in others by pressuring them to get over things quickly.
surefaith that is so true
cwt Brokeness is more like a hallway than a room. You do not live in a hall. It leads someplace. A period of brokenness, however intense, should lead us to another place.
surefaith accepting that is hard though
cwt Have any of you ever had a time where you felt you resisted the pruning process?
cwt (I know Surefaith ... I feel that way too)
cwt I know I have .... I think of times when I sense God is pruning me in the area of discipline.... to spend more time with Him.
cwt It is so easy to resist that - and fill my time with other things.
surefaith yes......resistance comes naturally lately
cwt Or if the Spirit is leading me to be sensitve to others in a certain area.,... I can easily ignore that too.
............................ witt left.............
cwt When we go through brokeness - is there a time where we actually encounter a "broken spirit"?
cwt What do we do with that?
surefaith start over I think........for me at least.
surefaith I am relearning the Bible......not the wrong theology I was taught.
cwt I think a broken spirit communicates to me someone who is completely fragile, possibly influencial, and very vulnerable.
cwt Really? Where you of another faith?
surefaith legalism.........
surefaith arminianism.........
cwt I didn't know that ... and I went onto this little spiel about exactly that ... wow!
surefaith amen.......
cwt God is an amazing God of grace!!!!
surefaith yes.....
cwt It's about our relationship with Him - not about what we do and accomplish for Him. That is awesome.
surefaith but so hard to internalize........
cwt When you came to the turning point spiritually .... were you broken?
surefaith yes.....
cwt Or my question could be ... was it out of brokenness you came to a deeper relationship with Christ?
surefaith but also confused about where to go from there.
cwt (is that past tense) or do you feel that way now?
surefaith not deeper.........a different relationship.....
cwt free?
cwt Not by works
surefaith I am still struggling with pleasing people........
surefaith but learning that God accepts me for who I am.
cwt As women - I think there is a portion of that in all of us.
cwt I am sensing that in more and more people as I talk to them.
cwt God desires for us to be free in knowing who we are in Christ.
cwt Is brokeness something we need to fear?
Shey no
cwt I doon't think so .... I think God wants to help us manage our pain and even find joy in it because we know it is not senseless.
Shey even though it probably scares us
cwt God leads us through these times for the purpose of creating new life.
cwt I love that scripture in Isaiah ... "they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength - they shall mount up with wings as eagles - they shall run and not be weary - they shall walk and not faint."
Shey and we need to keep focused of that
cwt I cling to that verse when I feel things are more than I can bear.
cwt I think God is waiting for us so often to hold our hands and guide us through those tough times - and watches while we claim to "do it ourselves"
cwt Before we close - let's briefly discuss what brokeness is not.
cwt It is not necessarily suffering. Suffering is more generic.
cwt Nearly all brokenness results in some degree of suffering, not all suffering is spiritual breaking.
cwt (make sense?)
Shey yes
cwt Sanctification and being Spirit-filled are not brokenness, though they are likely to result from it.
cwt Sanctification involves the preserving and purifying work of God's Spirit. It is something God does. Brokenness is often the process that prepares us to let God sanctify us wholly.
surefaith I struggle with "sanctification" because I always thought it meant perfectionism.
surefaith I guess we do the perfectionism thing ourselves........right?
cwt I think so
surefaith so God has to sanctify us?
cwt The Spirit of God does that.
cwt There are no amount of good works we could ever do that would be enough.
surefaith true....
cwt This is the amazing grace of salvation. It's God's work ... we simply need to trust and believe.
surefaith we can never be perfect enough either......
cwt Absolutely ... nor should we even try to be.
cwt It is so much better when we allow the Holy Spirit to flow through us and do His work in and through us.
surefaith it is too easy.......
cwt That is right ... it is too easy ... just like Peter on the water.
surefaith yes
cwt But .... He did have to "simply" keep His eyes on Christ .
cwt That is the part we sometimes struggle with - our faith becomes weak because we put it into ourselves
cwt Just like Peter did ... when he looked at the water.
surefaith that is so hard for me as a single-parent.
cwt No kidding.....
surefaith to know where I should let go....
surefaith and let God
cwt God will direct us .... if we simply let Him.
cwt I think He has so much available to us - if we simply trust Him for it.
cwt Could I pray for you now as we close in prayer?
surefaith I am not as patient as I use to be....yes please pray......
cwt "Lord, I thank you for this time where we could focus on you and the work you want to do in our lives, I pray for surefaith - that you would help her to shed the tendency towards legalism and replace that with faith and trust. We love you and praise you for all you want to do. I also pray for buffy and Marcy and ask for your hand in that situation. You obviously know it and ask for your hand in that. In Jesus Name. Amen."
cwt Thanks so much for coming online. It is always a delight to get together and seek God in this way.
