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Subject: The Reality of Debt-Free Living
Date: June 27, 2001
RELATED ARTICLE: Digging Out Of Debt
"Don't Pay Until Next Spring" advertising tempts us. Many of us "buy" into the simple solution to obtain those things that our hearts desire. However, are we truly ahead when spring finally does come? The joy of the purchase often has long worn off and we are left to struggle with our endeavor to make those hefty payments. Please join us as we share tips as to how you can strive towards debt-free living.
1. What does the Bible say about debt?
2. What are some practical steps to getting out of debt?
3. How can a person determine "good" debt and "bad" debt?
4. What are some creative ways to save money?
5. What are some concepts the Bible teaches about money?
6. How can we develop some grounded values that will stop us from getting into debt?
.............. Log on _finances started at Wed Jun 27 07:49:13 PDT 2001 ...........
cwt Hi heart4God. Like your nick name...!
............................ Laurie joined.............
cwt morning Laurie...!
Laurie Hi there
cwt How are you doing?
Laurie How is everyone today?
cwt I'm pretty good...but had a nutty day already...
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cwt Hey shey...!
Shey Hi everyone
Laurie I am okay. My daughter was really upset last night because she found out she wasn't getting an award at school today.
Shey that would be hard
cwt ahh...that's sad and hard for her.
cwt Did she think she was going to?
Laurie I prayed because I didn't seem to have the right words. A little while later my husband E-mailed her with the kindest message.
cwt that's super!
Laurie I think the Lord used him to help her. She was totally fine after that.
Shey that's neat
cwt I'm glad God can use anyone he choses to...
cwt chooses?
Laurie The Lord did bring something good out of a bad situation.
cwt yes. Had that happen today too. We just tried to buy our 3rd house in a town near here....
cwt three times something has come up that we couldn't get the house we thought we wanted...
Laurie Did the deal fall through?
cwt Partly the deal, partly we couldn't build a shop (garage) that we need
Shey wow that would get furstrating after awhile
cwt I know why they callit house HUNTING>>>!
Laurie Yes, that would test your patience.
cwt Just now, I got a phone call for a interview for my husband - at a job in the town we now live in...so God's hand may be in the whole thing in a way we are not expecting...
Laurie That is awesome.
Shey so where do you live
cwt Don't know what will happen...but patience is one thing for sure. I live in Alberta
Shey neat. So do I
cwt quite a few Albertiets here...
cwt Let's open this session in a word of prayer....
cwt Dear Lord, as we've looked at houses we sure are aware of our finances. As we talk about debt today, and all that goes with that, please guide us. Help us honor you and seek you. Amen
Laurie Amen
Shey amen
cwt Can you think of some things the Bible says about debt?
Laurie I think we need to decide whether spending is God-pleasing or just for ourselves.
cwt Proverbs is probably one of the best sources of verses regarding debt....
Shey I'm sure we should be careful concerning it
Laurie I am sure there needs to be some sort of restraint and look to the future.
cwt I think it says somewhere in a prayer...don't give me so much that I think I don't need God...or too little that I curse God...
Laurie A balance?
cwt We found a verse once that says "He is a fool who spends everything He makes..."
cwt yes. I think so Laurie
Laurie Yes, If we spend all that we make then we are spending more than we can afford.
cwt That is pretty much what debt is...spending more than you make - at least in most cases
cwt There is another versein proverbs that states something like "and clean barn" doesn't bring in any income...
Laurie I guess with credit being so available, many people really do stretch it to the limit in an effort to keep up with others.
cwt The idea that income and work are tied together
cwt Keeping up with the Jones?
Laurie That does tend to be what people in general do.
cwt So how could keeping up with the Jones incur "bad" debt...or is there even such a thing as "good debt" and bad debt?
Laurie Well, I think some debt maybe is "good". e.g. We borrow money to buy a house and we do need a roof over our heads.
Shey would good debt be when a missionary goes out in faith even when not all the money is in
Laurie Not meaning we should pick the most extravagant place on the block.
cwt That's a good point shey...
Laurie That is good Shey.
cwt buying a house is a toughie. I think the rule of thumb is that good debt is when something potentially increases in value...like a house.
cwt That makes a car sort of a bad debt to have...
Shey a lady went back to the mission field trusting God that the car she needed that was waiting for her would some how be payed for
Laurie That is true. Car depreciate very rapidly. They are never lasting.
cwt God does do very special things to supply for us when we pray...even taking care of bad debt that we may have incurred...
Shey but bad debt would be when we rack up our credit cards knowing that there is no money to pay it at the end of the month
cwt Sometimes tho., we have to sit on the blisters (so to speak) while God teaches us to rely on Him.
Shey that is so true
cwt I think so shey. when you pay 19% interest or higher on some cards its scarey.
cwt The hard thing is once you are in debt so easily...it is much harder to get out...
Laurie That is bad and it does seem to be the downfall of many. They use credit cards to supplement their lifestyles and know they can't pay in full when the bill comes.
Laurie It would become a game of "robbing Peter to pay Paul."
cwt I know we've gotten into trouble with our credit cards more than once. (ok..I admit it!)...
cwt exactly laurie. we've had money set aside to pay the credit card,,,and then used it to buy something else. silly.
cwt some painful lessons...
Laurie Well, I wouldn't feel bad you are not the only one. My cousin ran into quite a bit of trouble with credit.
Laurie But she did learn a good lesson and now she is very careful with her money.
cwt It has been good for us...if you can call it that...we've learned lots...and still have more to learn...
Shey that's good when people learn from there mistakes
cwt Is there anything else that can be considered good debt? What about schooling costs?
Shey I think that could be considered good debt.
Laurie Do you mean secondary education costs?
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cwt yes.
Shey Hi Kelly
cwt Hi Kelly. Welcome. We are just talking about digging out of debt
Laurie I also think they could be considered good debt.
cwt Shey, why do you think that education could be considered good debt?
cwt some really struggle with school incurred debt
Laurie I don't know anyone who ever regretted paying for further education. But is definitely is a struggle for some students once they graduate to start paying off loans.
Shey it's something most can't afford in one lump sum like a house but it's necessary for so many jobs
Laurie That is true, Shey. Good point.
cwt I think so. Education really increases you personal value..or your ability to increase your income...so I too think it is good debt...but you have to carefully consider the cost
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Shey it's also a humbling experience
Shey to realize that you need help from others
cwt I wonder if we wouldn't use credit to get us out of trouble, would we see the hand of God more in our lives?
Shey how do you mean
Laurie I think we would because I am sure God would send people to help us.
cwt Well, I think that when we take too many financial matters into our own hands to solve...we don't live by faith, and don't give God opportunity to show how he can supply for us...
Laurie Or maybe it would force us to see what are really needs and what are actually just wants.
cwt That too, laurie. good point.
Shey then yes I think we would definatly see more of Him
cwt Our focus can be changed from trying to take care of ourselves, to that of seeking God and watching Him take care of us...(not meaning we just sit with our feet up)
Laurie That is a good point.
cwt I find that a challenge. It seems easier to pull out the credit card, or sign a loan, or rush to buy ahouse, then have patience to see what God brings...
cwt Matt 6:33 is what comes to mind "seek first God's kingdom and all these things shall be added to you..."I don't think that means earthly things as much as character development
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cwt opps? You ok shey
Shey sorry got bumped
Laurie Well, I must admit my husband's vehicle is on its last legs. (13 years old) We may sign a loan but I don't think we will be over extending ourselves. We never go into debt for anything else.
Shey never happened before
cwt Yeah. Here too. We've got a 1984 with 332,000 kms on it.
cwt don't laugh..its paid for...(LOL!)
Laurie This one is a 1988 with 323, 000 Kms on it.
Shey we just got a new van but we made sure we most payed for before we took out a loan
Laurie I wouldn't laugh because we always keep our vehicles until they absolutely need to be replaced.
cwt I think the key is overextension...but is also if you have credit working on the good side for you or against you. Most loans work against you...
Laurie We also have we bought new a few years ago. That is the only one we have ever purchased new because we intend to keep it for a long time also.
cwt "they" say if you do take out a loan, to take it out for the shortest time you can...
Laurie That is true. The longer the loan the more interest you pay.
cwt "they" say that too...to get a new car and keep it as long as you can. We've lost more money on cars than I care to think about...big mistakes...
Shey we took it out for longer to get the lower interest rate but intent to pay it off sooner
Laurie After all this talk of debt we may end up pulling the money from somewhere else.
cwt robbing peter?
cwt It is hard to not go into debt. It goes against much of what we see and hear every day...
Laurie No, we would take it from an investment. But I guess in the long run maybe it would be decreasing our "net worth".
cwt I'm not leading this session because I've got the problem whipped...it is because I know how difficult it is to dig out only to fall in again...
Laurie It is wonderful of you to share this with us. It is not easy to talk about money.
cwt I think you have to look at the interest you are gaining - vs the credit you pay. To buy a car using your own bank is on the good side of credit, I think. you could then schedule a way to pay back what you have borrowed from yourself>. an unusual concept perhaps?
cwt Like...a goal should be to have money set aside so that you borrow from yourself instead of the bank at high interest...
cwt it's something that we are working towards...but certainly not an easy path
Laurie Those are good points.
Shey so you save money so that you can use it later when you need it
cwt yes. that is the idea. what do you think?
Shey that's a great idea but like you said can be hard
Shey the paying back not the spending
Laurie We did save the money, it is just that my husband likes to put it into different things so it isn't where the cash is just sitting around. Otherwise I would probably be like a lot of other people and be tempted to spend if we had direct access to it.
cwt yes. I know. It sure is an idea we'd like to integrate in our lives...for the smaller things -- not so much a house.
cwt I think investments are very wise. Again, that is on the good side of credit. the money is working for you
Laurie That is good for smaller things or emergencies.
Laurie And there always seem to be those types of things. e.g. car repair, etc.
cwt So, any ideas onhow to get saving some money? creatively?
Shey it's nice to have a little set aside for extras
cwt We have a tooney bank...
cwt more of a change bank. Doesn't save up large amounts tho.
Laurie That is good. I have heard of people dumping all their loonies or toonies into a jar each time they come into the house.
cwt We'd have to glue the lid down....
Shey my husband use to put $100 in a savings account every paycheck
Laurie LOL
Laurie That is a really good idea Shey. That way you can see the money growing and if you put it in right away it is out of sight.
cwt that is a good one Shey. Since we've started our own business, we've had to be sure to put tax money aside. Very good discipline...
Laurie What type of business do you run?
cwt My husband is a finish carpenter
Shey also he has his RRSP's come off hes paycheck so really don't miss it
cwt mostly his business, I help wiht stuff...
Laurie Oh, that is wonderful. He would be handy at fixing things around the house I bet.
cwt That is a good one too shey. That's actually what financial planners recommend. A little every month is better than none at all...
cwt He is. Very good man my man....
cwt (GRIN!)
Laurie We do pay into an R.R.S.P. every month and it is amazing how just a little goes a long way.
Shey those handy guys can save alot of money by fixing things rather than calling a repair man
cwt We always tried to put away huge amounts, and it never worked because it hurt too much...too much month left at the end of the money....so now we just do little bits. It is a start.
Laurie Sometimes people don't think they can invest. But anyone can start small and work their way up to larger amounts.
cwt yes. That's true Shey. good point too. fix what you can yourself to save money...put away what the repair man would have cost...
Laurie I have found that slow and steady does always win the race.
cwt yeah...slow and steady...little amounts. The same works for getting out of debt?
Laurie I have heard a lot of people say they took out consolidation loans. But I guess with this, the key would be to make sure you are not just extending your payments for even longer.
cwt I think debt really stops us from having freedom to help others too....
Laurie I agree.
cwt yes. consolidation can be good -- and bad...sometimes it just means you have more money to rack up another debt and then consolidate again. You have to be pretty serious to get yourself out of the mess or it can go on for years...
cwt What are some concepts that the Bible teaches about debt?
cwt The Bible actually talks alot about finances. Proverbs is certainly a key place to look
Laurie I think in the time of Jesus, people were locked up if they couldn't pay their debts.
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cwt one verse that comes to mind is "the borrower is servant to the lender". talk about bondage...
Laurie Thank goodness that doesn't really happen in this day and age.
cwt yeah. Jesus did have a story about that didn't he. As if you could pay off a debt while you were in prision. Pretty hopeless...
Laurie I wonder if Shey was bumped out again?
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Laurie Were you bumped out again?
cwt hey shey. You are bumping around...?
cwt wonder what is happening...
Shey that's unbelievable
cwt what that?
Laurie This is odd that it has happened so many times.
Shey never been bumped in my life and now twice today
cwt I'll check into it...
cwt I'm not bumping you out...
Shey thanks
Shey no I'm sure you're not
cwt LOL
Laurie I wonder if your internet connection is somehow set to automatically shut down after a certain number of minutes.
cwt that could do it I think
Laurie I think that happened to one of the hosts before who was on her parents' computer.
cwt yikes. Never know what can happen...
cwt Here is another question for you....I know this isn't an easy topic...but it is so much a part of ourlives...so thanks for chatting...anyway...what kind of values can we develop that will stop us form getting into debt?
Laurie Try not to use credit and simply allow a certain amount for ourselves and stick to it.
cwt I think patience is one
cwt Perhaps remembering it is better to give than to receive would also help
Laurie Maybe the Debit Card would be a better thing to use if you simply can't carry cash.
Laurie Those are good points cwt.
cwt Yes. I lvoe the debit card if you can carefullly keep track of things. we use ours like a cheque book. works really well
Laurie Yes, I also like the Debit Card.
cwt Trust and faith in God to supply - meaning that we wait on God to supply for us, rather than dig out the card...
cwt much more blessing to see God at work....one I have to remember
Laurie I am sure we all do need to remember this.
cwt I think it is wise to seek advice too on finanical issues...
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Laurie Advice from God or do you mean a financial planner?
cwt HI sheyla. welcome. We are justing talking about digging out of debt
Sheyla Hi it's me
Laurie Boy, Shey, you sure are having trouble today!
cwt both...I think becoming familiar with what the Bible teaches on finances, and a financial planner...
Sheyla now you know my full name
cwt It is a pretty name...
Sheyla thanks
Laurie Yes, I really like your name. It is so unusual and pretty.
cwt Let's close this session in a prayer. I know it's been a toughie, touchie subject...thanks for helping chat...
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Sheyla I'm still here
Laurie I guess Shey just left. Lol!
cwt Dear Lord, you remind us not to worry because you take care of the birds and the flowers. Thank you for that Lord. Help us to always remember to serve you with the money you supply
cwt Help us be careful about debt, and remember that bondage to money hinders us from serving you and others...thank you Lord that the Bible talks about money and guides us. Amen
Laurie Amen
Sheyla Amen
Laurie Thank you for the session. It has been wonderful.
Sheyla yes thank you for leading us
cwt You are welcome . Tough to talk about tho.
Sheyla you did good
cwt well, I've got some BIG blisters that I want to try to help others avoid...if I can...
Sheyla that's good
Laurie Yes, you have really made some excellent points. And you are very kind to share your wisdom.
cwt I should run...my kids are starving....not my wisdom Laurie. It's Gods. Check out proverbs on money if you get a chance. You'll be amazed at how much the Bible actually says about it...
Sheyla yes mine are getting hungry too. Better feed them
Laurie That is true, but by God using you it will help others. God Bless.
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cwt take care. bye.
Sheyla bye
cwt thanks for your help shey...
Sheyla not a problem
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Sheyla Hi Rainbow
cwt hi Rainbow. We just finished up a session on finances....where do you hail from?
Rainbow I am from Pa.
Rainbow Where are you from?
cwt Is this your first time here?
cwt Alberta
Rainbow I was on once before for a few minutes.
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Rainbow Do you come often?
Sheyla we are having another session on Thrusday evening
Sheyla yes I come once or twice a wek
Rainbow What subject is it on?
Sheyla there is a schedule just below this page and it tells you about the next few weeks
Rainbow I did see it before and I will check it out.
Sheyla we'd love to have you back
Rainbow Is every one gone?
Sheyla I need to go and feed my kids. But I'd encourage you to come again. There are great discussions here
Rainbow Good I will! thank you!
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Sheyla do you receive e-mails of the coming discussion times?
Rainbow No
Sheyla just up at the top of the page is a tab that says Sign up. If you click there you can receive these notices and then you will know when there is a chat session
Rainbow My children are grown and gone.
Sheyla mine are still little
Rainbow Yes I did notice that.
Rainbow I'm not working for the summer and have alot of time.
Rainbow So I will jin in.
Rainbow Sorry I meant join in
Sheyla that would be great we would love to have you. Before I go is there any thing I can pray for for you?
Rainbow You better go and feed those little ones, yes
Rainbow You can pray for me personally, I have alot going on in my life the last year.
Rainbow What about you/
Sheyla Lord I just wasnt to pray for Rainbow now that you would be with her and you know what has gone on in her life and that you would use these things to bring her closer to you. Amen
Sheyla that our summer would be good and that we would have good family times
Rainbow Thank You, I need many prayers.
Sheyla your welcome
Sheyla well now I must go my kids are getting very hungry
Rainbow And I also pray that you have a save , healthy and love filled summer and always
Rainbow Bye
Sheyla thanks and take care. Bye for now
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