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Subject: Created for heaven Immediately
Date: October 22, 2001
Related Article:
Related Article: Losing Baby
A myriad of emotions run through a woman when they learn of a pregnancy. Some of these emotions are difficult and some are joyful. There are those who feel overwhelmed with their pregnancy and for whatever reason, make the choice of abortion. Others experience the painful loss of miscarriage or a stillborn. Through each of these losses, the women are left with empty arms and aching hearts. Please join us for this discussion.
cwt- CREATED FOR HEAVEN IMMEDIATELY
cwt- Hi everyone!
cfaith- hello
Donna- New Zealand....just a bit below Australia
Joy- Hi cwt
cwt- and especially you Donna...all the way from New Zealand!
Donna- Hi
Joe- Hi cwt
cwt- I am really looking forward to tonight's chat....
cwt let's open up with a word of prayer
cwt- Father, it is so good to be here tonight! Thank you for this opportunity to chat with women from around the world, to share with one another and to learn from you. Guide us as we talk about those babies that are created for heaven immediately. Guide us by Your Spirit. Amen
cwt- Good to have you and Donna representing the southern hemisphere tonight
cwt- Tonight we are going to be talking about dealing with the loss of babies
cwt- that's why the topic is called, Created for Heaven Immediately
cwt- Most of us have either experienced this thru miscarriage, stillbirth, or knowing others who have
cwt- Noahsmom has a special story to tell, but how about the rest of you?
darling- Iremember having a miscarriage long ago and how painful it was physically and later emotionally.
cwt- I had two miscarriages, one at four months(my first pregnancy) and then another at two months, between my son and my daughter..
Lea- our daughter has lost 2 babies to miscarriage
Donna -A friend has had trouble getting pregnant and whenshe did she lost the baby
cwt- It is always painful, and we often don't realize the emotional struggle it will be later on
noahsmom- i'm so sorry everyone
cwt- noahsmom, why don't you tell us your story
darling- I don't know whether the physical pain was worse or the emotional thing later
noahsmom- i was pregnant for the first time 3 years ago
cwt- I agree darling!
noahsmom- 6 months along and we were so excited. then i started bleeding...
noahsmom- the docs didn't know what was happening, but assured us everything would be fine. they were ready to send me home, but wanted an ultrasound first.
.
cwt- And then what happened?
noahsmom- anyway, they wouldn't tell me what was going on all day, just kept checking and reassuring me. finally a strange doctor came in and told us that our baby was dead. i didn't believe him.
noahsmom- i was very sick - had to have my kidney removed. a week after that my son noah was born
cwt- That must have been terribly difficult for you
darling- Our hearts go out to you mom of Noah
noahsmom- it was the most terrible and most wonderful experience. i loved him instantly - i always had. i couldn't believe that i would never get to take him home with me
cwt- So created for heaven immediately is exactly what happened!
Donna- I'm sorry noahsmom
.
noahsmom- he was so tiny and beautiful to me. i can't wait to meet him someday!
cwt- I feel that way about the babies I lost too....can't wait to meet them when I get to Heaven!
darling- I know I oftent think of my first baby up in Heaven and how I will see him?her one day. I didn't know what gender so named my baby as a boy after my dad.
noahsmom- i love that phrase - created for heaven immediately. their lives are important and filled with purpose - just not here with us
cwt -That's funny...so did I!
noahsmom- what are their names?
cwt- mine is David
Faith- I am sorry that you have all lost babies.
darling- Mine is Cecil
Lea- that is a good thing to do, name the babies
sunshine- mine is Terri
Bo- My friend's baby died shortly after birth, her first child, named him Joseph.
cwt- I think it really is important to name them
cwt- After all, God created them!
darling- It helps give identity to a life that was given through us by God
noahsmom- one of my favorite poems talks about using a baby's name - it may bring tears to my eyes, but it is music to my ears
cwt- I like that noahsmom!
sunshine- Remember Jesus with the little children...let them come to Me....it really helped me when I found out that the word for little children is also used of the unborn child. To imagine my little one on His lap was/is comforting.
cwt- I think it is so important to realize that no matter how far along we are in a pregnancy, we all grieve when we lose that child
Faith- I think that is a good point cwt.
cwt- I had never heard that before sunshine...how neat!
noahsmom- it's hard that when our child is unborn not many others understand or grieve with us
darling- I must tremember that I am the mother of four children not only the three that are with us
Lea- that is really beautiful sunshine
cwt- When I lost my baby, the staff at the hospital just treated me like I had the flu...sent me home, and told me to get on with life
noahsmom- Here's that poem "the mention of my child's name may bring tears to my eyes, but it never fails to bring music to my ears. if you are really my friend let me hear the music of his name. it soothes my broken heart and sings to my soul.
Bo- My friend would get upset when people didn't know what to say so wouldn't say anything.
cwt- But the reality was, I had lost that child that we so badly wanted
Donna- That is so nice noahsmom
cwt- That is beautiful!
noahsmom- people are so uncomfortable with death - especially of the unborn
cwt- The lady in the bed beside me was so awesome...
Faith- Very true. People are not always able to find the right words.
noahsmom- I'm so sorry cwt - as if losing a baby is not enough of a heartache
cwt- told me that she too had lost her firstborn, and that every year on his birthday she remembered him, even though she had four more children later
noahsmom- some people were wonderful - some were terrible
cwt- That really helped me!
cwt- And I have passed that on to probably over a hundred women who have had miscarriages or stillbirths since then
darling- People treated me as if nothing had happened ---even the doctor
noahsmom- it helps to know that it is okay to grieve, to remember and that no child can replace the one you've lost
cwt- That is so true!
sunshine- After we lost our baby, God used a little child to bring His comfort. She asked," Did your baby go to be with Jesus? ...very clearly expecting a "Yes". The faith of a 3 year old is neat.
cwt- I have three great kids! But I still miss the other two!
noahsmom- the doctor who told us said "stuff" happens (not a direct quote)
noahsmom- how wonderful!
noahsmom- sunshine
cwt- That is neat sunshine!
noahsmom- kids get it
cwt- how far along were you?
sunshine- first trimester
cwt- I have a friend that lost two little girls....two years apart....
sunshine- never found out for sure... prob. 8-9 weeks.
cwt- she named both of them, and kept something to remind her of them...a plate or a vase
cwt- How did people minister to you? that is, what helped?
noahsmom- it has helped me so much to remember noah - it keeps me looking forward to the day i'll meet him, not back to the incredible pain or at the empty place in my family
darling- Here we grieve the losses of our little ones yet there are so many who choose to lose them---I don't understand
cwt- I find that really hard to understand too....
noahsmom- people help when they remember him. the ones who call him by name, who looked at his pictures (even though that freaks most people out), the ones who were clearly uncomfortable, but said something anyway
Faith- Yet for whatever reason, very many women do choose to terminate their pregnancies...
cwt- I think that we all need to learn how to minister to those who have lost their babies...
sunshine- and then many grieve over that for years, as well.
cwt- So true!
Donna- there are so many that can't get pregnant
cwt- That too!
Faith- I think many of these women find it very hard to forgive themselves for choosing to terminate the pregnancy.
darling- It is wonderful to think that the unchosesn ones are with our Lord in Heaven as well
cwt- So true!
sunshine- May we respond with compassion to them.
Lea- yes, amen to that
darling- Yes sunshine
Bo- They regret it so much.
cwt- I think that we would be surprised by how many women have had abortions
noahsmom -God is eager to forgive, i know their children will forgive, i pray that they find it
darling- Most of the time they believe that it is only tissue--not a living soul
Lea- yes, that is true cwt
Lea- I have a good friend who had an abortion before she knew Jesus
cwt- Many are in that same situation
noahsmom- such a secret heartache - no one much talks about grieving parents who aborted
cwt- How awesome to realize that God forgives all our sin
Lea- it is still painful for her now
cwt- that is so true noahsmom
Faith -God wants to forgive us.
darling- Yes and He alone can take all guilt away
cwt- I guess we can help them deal with that guilt by sharing with them about how God views sin....
cwt- it is all the same, the ones we see as little and the 'biggies'!
noahsmom- and once forgiven completely taken away
cwt -Whether a little white lie or an abortion...we all need to confess that sin, and then allow God to forgive us and fill us anew with His Holy Spirit
cwt- That's what we often call Spiritual Breathing...
darling- Amen
cwt- Confessing the sin, and then inhaling the new.....allowing God to forgive and giving Him control of our lives again!
cwt- Even when I miscarried...I felt guilty, like in some way I had perhaps caused it
Faith- I liked your point cwt about God not seeing one sin as worse than another sin. We as people tend to judge things that way. How wonderful to know God doesn't.
cwt- I have talked to other women who have felt the same thing
sunshine- That can be hard to deal with, too.
darling- If only we could always see the "smallies" the same as we see the biggies" we would look with more compassion on one another
Faith- Absolutely!
cwt- You are so right darling!
cwt- We have this grading system, which is not at all how God sees it!
cwt- What are some of the other emotions that you felt after losing your baby?
sunshine- When you hear a friend has gone thru it, and really hear her pain, it helps w/ compassion.
noahsmom- for awhile i thought that God didn't think i would be a good mom - i felt so guilty
cwt- good point sunshine!
cwt- that's interesting...even though it was such an obvious physical problem?
noahsmom- i felt so many feelings that i knew were irrational
sunshine- That's the way grief is.
Faith -Very often, other people may say things to make the person think they may have done something to cause the loss.
cwt- After I had the second miscarriage, I felt really mad at God that I couldn't seem to do what other women never had any problems with
noahsmom- i have never been a worrier and suddenly i was afraid of everything
cwt- you are so right Faith!
darling- Also after a miscarriage the hormones are all over the place!
cwt- And that is important to remember!
cwt- I once read that it takes two years for our bodies to return to normal...regardless of how far along we are
noahsmom- the worst feeling is that perhaps i am losing my mind
noahsmom- it sure helped to talk to others who had been there
cwt- Grief can really do that to us can't it?
Bo- post trama.
noahsmom- especially when so many people expect you to 'get over it' so quickly
sunshine- The evening when we found out we were losing our baby, one of our pastors and his wife came over ... sat with us, listened ... and warned us of some of the pitfalls down the road.
sunshine- Bless their hearts!
cwt- That is so neat sunshine!
cwt- What a way to minister to you!
cwt- That's a good thing for us to remember to do
darling- We must talk to one another---that is where I find the most healing---other than when I go to my Father in Heaven in prayer for comfort and understanding---He gave His son for us
cwt -So many women go thru is without any kind of support
Bo- Only one who goes through it knows.
sunshine- It really was... and it was not just one night, but a continuing concern.
cwt- That's so right Bo!
noahsmom- that is key - grief is a looooooong journey
Faith- When anyone close to us dies we need a period of time to work through the grief. I think it would be the same with miscarriages and stillbirths.
sunshine- Yet, a lady who hadn't been thru it was a tremendous help.
cwt- I remember people who wrote me after....who I never knew had lost a baby.
cwt- My husband's grandmother wrote me and she had lost three babies! Noone else in the family knew
cwt- It ministered to me so much because she understood my loss
Faith- Isn't that wonderful they were able to share their grief and feelings with you.
noahsmom- i keep all the cards we got in noah's memory box and i read them from time to time. so many wrote about the babies they lost.
cwt- noahsmom, how have you seen God work your incredible loss for good in your lives?
noahsmom- my brother Bradley was still born when I was 5. noah died on his birthday. my mom was great
darling- Inever was comforted and it wasn't until many years later that I had to deal with it when suddenly I broke down in tears because of someone talking on the radio about losses of the unborn
cwt -Wow! That must have been so hard for you mother
noahsmom -she grieved deeply too
cwt- I think that we can have an incredible ministry as we show compassion to those who are grieving, and everyone grieves in a different way and at a different speed
sunshine- What verses or truths from Scripture meant something special to you guys?
noahsmom- God has used Noah's death in so many wonderful ways. it's a comfort, but i would still love to have instead. I trust that God knows best and am glad he is using it
cwt- I know the plans I have for you, plans for a future and a hope, and not for calamity
cwt- Psalm 139....
cwt- knowing that God had numbered the days of my children....from before they were even created!
darling- The Beatitudes in Matthew 5 especially vs. 4 Blessed are they that mourn for they shall be comforted
sunshine- Lam 3:32 became a favorite for me
sunshin-e Though he brings grief, he will show compassion, so great is his unfailing love
cwt- I remember that one too!
noahsmom- "We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed, perplexed, but not abandoned... 2 cor 4: 8-9
sunshine- Romans 8 ... NOTHING shall separate me from His love.
cwt- the other one that really helped me was I Corinthians 1....that the God of all comfort, comforts us with the comfort that we in turn will comfort others with
noahsmom- from Job - though he slay me, yet will I trust in Him.
sunshine- That's neat
cwt- Those are all great verses to remember....I think that I will have to print out this transcript tomorrow, and keep it on hand!
Faith- Yes, those are all wonderful verses!
noahsmom- The Lord is close to the broken hearted... from Psalms
sunshine- For me, one that was a big help was from Genesis...shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
noahsmom- i like that one!
cwt- God puts all of our tears in a bottle....I love that verse!!! I tell people that mine are in a ten gallon drum! there are way too many for just a bottle! LOL
cwt- That is a good one sunshine!
Faith -I like that cwt.
sunshine- I was asking a lot of questions, but that helped me to realize I was called on to simply trust Him...even if I didn't have the answers.
darling- Amen
noahsmom- Ecclesiastes - there is a season for everything and a time for every activity under heaven ... a time to weep... a time to mourn
cwt- That verse helps me because it reminds me that every tear is important to God
noahsmom- i wasn't being ungodly by grieving my child
sunshine- noahsmom...that is a good point
Faith- Nobody should be ashamed to grieve. That is a good point noahsmom.
cwt- Yes it is important for all of us to remember
noahsmom- i posted a website for noah and have been able to minister to many women through it. i have made some wonderful friends and had opportunities to share Christ
Faith- That is awesome!
cwt- Jesus wept at the grave of Lazarus
darling- that is wonderful N's mom
Lea- you are truly a blessing noahsmom
cwt- can you give us that website? It would be a good one to keep on hand as a reference
noahsmom- often it is well meaning christian friends (and husbands) who suggest that by grieving these women are ungodly. it breaks my heart
noahsmom- www.geocities.com/mynoahsplace
cwt- I hear you!
sunshine- We need to remember the other family members who also grieve... expectant daddies, grandparents, etc.
cwt- thanks....
cwt- Good point sunshine!
darling- Noah lives on the website Praise God
cwt- My husband was so hurt..especially because the hospital staff treated him like there was no problem...just go home and get some sleep!
noahsmom- you asked what good God has brought from noah's death - the most important is the changes in me. i am tenderhearted and i used to be that person who thought a stiff upper lip was 'spiritual'. i have grown so much
Faith- That is terrible!
darling- Often the fathers are very much neglected as they don't share so openly
cw-t He mentioned that again just a couple of weeks ago, and it has been almost 25 years
noahsmom- poor dads - they feel the need to take care of us too and they are hurting too
Faith- Good point darling. Men sometimes do have a much harder time sharing their emotions.
cwt- Good point noahsmom.....God sure has used my losses to shape and mold me...
noahsmom- if it is socially unacceptable for women to grieve for their unborn children, it is really unheard of for men too
cwt- I think that is one way that we can minister to couples who are hurting as well...allow the husbands to grieve too
cwt- something to really be mindful of
darling- It is mostly in the valley of grief and despair that I have had my greatest growth
cwt- I have heard it said that those whom God uses greatly have suffered greatly!
noahsmom- God can change us when we are broken and desperate
sunshine- I've heard some of the old favorite hymns came from the passing of children...Safe in the Arms of Jesus is one of them.
cwt- It is when I am broken, that I cry out to God and no longer try to be self-sufficient!
Faith- Very true. And we will always find that He is enough.
darling- It is then we draw closer to Him for we know we need Him
cwt- Isn't that the truth!
noahsmom- it is well with my soul - we sang that at noah's funeral and it was written by a man who lost his wife and all his children
Faith- That is such a great hymn.
darling- When we are in the arms of Jesus He has all of us
cwt- If there is one last message you could share with us, what would it be?
sunshine- I like that, darling
noahsmom- don't be afraid of broken hearts - your own or other people. as scary and painful as it is - that's where God works
noahsmom- other people's - that is
cwt-Yesterday in church the speaker mentioned that the safest place to be is in the will of God! Good reminder when we are hurting
Faith- So true!
darling- Walk through grief don't run----It is a work and a journey that must be done completely and Ou Lord is the only one who can really help us with the final healing
cwt- That is such a good reminder!
Lea- so true darling
noahsmom- there are no shortcuts - great point!
cwt- I have a friend who lost her son a year ago...I think I will share that with her!
cwt- I cannot believe that our hour is already up
cw-t Feel free to stay and chat some more...but for those who need to go, let's close in prayer
noahsmom- thank you so much everyone - i have learned so much from y'all
Faith- It has passed so quickly. This has been such a great discussion and it is wonderful of all of you to share.
cwt- Father, thank you for the time that we have had together. Thank you for the lives that each of these women have touched, and for the truths that you have reminded us of
Faith- Thank you.
cwt- Remind us as we minister to others, the things that You are teaching us. amen
noahsmom- Lord - thank you for the women here and the great things you have done in their lives.
cwt- Thanks so much ladies...
noahsmom- thank you everyone - i'm off to bed. it's late here
cwt- Father, thank you that You are holding out little ones even now....and some day soon we will behold You and them in one glimpse.
sunshine- night, noahsmom ...thanks for sharing.
Donna- Our God is an awesome God
cwt- Thanks so much noahsmom
Lea- what a wonderful day that will be
noahsmom- give david, cecil, noah and all the other ones an extra squeeze. thank you for loving them even more than we do Lord
Lea- and we will have all of eternity to be with them
darling- Thank you deaar Lord for all lthese dear ladies who have suffered such great losses but whom you are bringing through victorously
cwt -Yes, it is a good reminder to always have eternity in our hearts!
Faith -Amen
