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Subject: Where Do We Draw The Line?
Date: April 25, 2001
AUTHORITY: WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE?
During his first week of grade one, my son discovered the key to success on
the playground was to become "top boss" of a clearly defined area. In a
similar way, adults in the position of "top boss" have a tremendous
responsibility. They have the ability to build into people or to destroy
people.
Please join us for a challenging discussion as to how we can know where to
draw the line in those in authority in our lives, be it in our marriages,
work, or friendships
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:
1. What does the word " submission" mean to you?
2. How does the Biblical view of submission differ from that of the world?
3. How do we resolve leadership issues in relationships?
4. How do you 'submit' to your husband/pastor/leader when you disagree with
them?
5. What is the role of the Holy Spirit in this area?
6. How do our various personalities affect our view of submission?
7. When conflict arises, how do we resolve them without causing undue
hurt/pain to our selves or our leader?
8. How important is communication in this issue? What are the right/wrong
ways to communicate when there is a conflict?
.............. Log on apr25 started at Wed Apr 25 08:07:40 PDT 2001 ...........
............................ Lady joined.............
cwt hi lady
cwt How are you today?
cwt Is this your first time in this chat room?
cwt It sometimes takes a few minutes until people arrive
Lady I am doing fine. and yourself? First time.
cwt Welcome
............................ blessing joined.............
cwt How did you hear about this room?
cwt Hi blessing
blessing Hi all
Lady I was just checking into Christianity and felt like meeting fellow sisters.
cwt That is great
cwt I'm from Alberta - how about you?
Lady Hi there blessing!
blessing hi there lady
blessing where are you from>?
Lady I am from Manitoba, arre you serving the Lord?
cwt We will wait a minute or two before we begin - but typically our sessions are focused and discussion oriented
............................ Laurie joined.............
cwt Hi Laurie
blessing hi Laurie
blessing glad to have you here
Laurie Hi everyone!
Lady Welcome Laurie!
cwt Lady, if you would like regular updates, we could send them and let you know when and what our sessions are about.
cwt How are you today Laurie?
Laurie Good, but it has been quite a busy week and it is only partly over.
Lady Please send me the sessions, like i said my first time here, not sure what you discuss.
cwt We send our updates by email - so if you could just give me your email address I will add that to the list
Lady mcnhealth@mts.net
cwt Thanks
cwt We can begin our session ... I will open in prayer
cwt Lord, thank you so much for this time together. I ask that you would guide and direct and that our time together would be rewarding. Amen.
cwt What does the word "submission" mean to you?
Laurie Surrender
blessing Thank you Lord for this time together, guide us by your Holy Spirit, Amen
cwt I know it is a very misunderstood word in our culture
Laurie Not to resist.
Lady Bless you Lord as we accept this time and day with thanksgiving and praise, thank you Jesus
blessing that is such an interesting word, most people think it means something negative like being a door mat, but really to me it means more like surrender just like you said Laurie
Lady Being fully committed.
blessing that is a good comment lady
cwt That is a great point lady
cwt Commitment is so different than "door mat"
blessing certainly is
cwt If in a marriage we commit to each other - we respond to one another.
blessing door mat means " used" in a negative way
cwt I suppose that is the same in the work place
blessing yes, commitment with respect and honor
Laurie I find society attacks traditional marriage. Women should have all these rights and submit to nobody the way society sees it.
Lady yes, we need to respect ourself just as we respect our Lord and Saviour, because we are not here for ourself.
cwt That is so true
cwt How does the Biblical view of submission differ from that of the world?
cwt Biblically, we give out of a heart of love .... and in a worldly sense that is often seen as sacrifice
Laurie I think the husband is supposed to provide leadership but it doesn't mean he is superior.
cwt Good point
cwt Few people really understand that.
cwt My husband likes to say ... I'm the head, but my wife is the neck and she turns me wherever she wishes (ha ha)
Lady Society is so blinded by the wordly matters, which is the reason we are here to witness our spiritual belive and tell them that Jeasus is alive and real.
blessing so true Laurie, there needs to be mutual respect and love that is what submission means in the Biblical sense
Laurie Yes, mutual submission is a good word.
Lady Are you all married out there?
cwt Yes
Laurie Yes
blessing yes, 21 years now, it's been great
blessing and you?
cwt How do we resolve leadership issues in relationships?
Lady I am single, with one child.
cwt How old is your child?
Lady 3 years of age
cwt Just young .....
blessing were you married at one time?
Lady No i have not been married yet, but am waiting for my blessing.
cwt What kind of authority situations do you find yourself in (parents/work)?
blessing good for you, the Lord will bring the right mate for you in His time
cwt Sometimes authority situations can arise in totally surprising areas like even church matters.
cwt When people in authority over us seem to be doing the very wrong thing ..... what kind of response should we have?
Lady I havve submitted my life the the Lord in the year 1999, i have enjoyed and loved him since than, i have not given my self full authority because like i said i am no longer my own boss.
Laurie I think if it is in direct conflict with God's word then I wouldn't agree with it.
blessing that is what I have had recently in my life, an authority situation was challenging to my foundational beliefs so we had to leave the church
cwt You are quite a new believer then Lady!
cwt That is so very difficult blessing!
blessing that is so true, lady, our first authority is given to God, totally submissive to Him
cwt It's amazing when we have to re-evaluate what is in our head and relearn it from a different perspective.
Laurie How true
cwt There are people in this world who abuse situations of leadership
Lady Yes, new but have gone through tough trils and flaming fire but i believe for good reasons in God's molding and future blessings.
blessing but if leaders above us happen to lead in a way that seems against what God would honor, I find that I must slip out the back door, and go worship somewhere else
cwt We have a choice in those difficult situations to grow through that time or to turn angry and bitter.
blessing yes, so true, the reaction is our choice
blessing anger and bitterness never bring out good results
cwt We are fully responsible for that .... even though we have no control over the other persons wrong-doings.
blessing have any of you ever heard of Oswald Chambers, or read any of his devotional books?
cwt He is great
Lady Like mentioned before when you committ yourself unto the Lord we must believe that he will take us through anything and not turn away.
Laurie Haven't seen any of the books yet.
cwt He certainly will
blessing he is a very deep spiritual writer and he calls submission a total abandonment to God, I have always liked that concept
cwt Total abandonment to God ... what a concept ...
blessing I would highly recommend My Utmost Fod His Highest... in a modern version
blessing sorry For
cwt Why don't we discuss that ... what do you think that all means?
cwt Relinquishing our own will
cwt That is soooo hard!
blessing to me, it means each day putting God on the throne of my life and putting my own agenda aside
cwt I tend to have my own ideas of what I think works best in my life - and it is so easy to look to God to stamp His approval on it.
blessing yes, very hard to do
Lady I am sorry to log off now, but i must tend to my Child for lunch, God Bless and hope to talk again soon. Jesus loves you all because he says so in his Word.
cwt Great to have you online Lady
cwt Please join us again.
cwt How can we pray for you
blessing sorry to see you go, check our schedule below and join us again we are on regularly
cwt Do you have a specific request?
Lady Please pray for my community that the young, sinner's and unbeliver's will be saved. Amen!
blessing we can pray for you online
cwt Will do
Lady Sure, please
cwt "Lord I come to you and ask for your direction and hand on Lady's life ... and that she would be able to be a witness in her community and share more about you. Amen:
blessing yes Lord you hear the cries of Lady's heart to reach her community , we ask that you use her to be your light and your salt, Amen
Lady God bless you all, bye
............................ Lady left.............
blessing God bless you
cwt Let's discuss further ... abandonment to God and what that really means in relation to authority - especially when we disagree with them.
cwt Abandonment to God is truly a daily and regular thing that we need to do.
blessing that is such a rubber meets the road question, a good one to know in advance what the Bible says to do
Laurie Yes, I have been learning that. It is a daily thing.
blessing for sure we cannot live the full life of surrender and submission without constantly being reminded of how Big and Awesome God is, and all He has done for us
cwt Giving up our will takes so much "giving up"
Laurie What does the Bible say in relation to authority when we disagree with others?
blessing yes, it does, but I find as we know more about God and His characteristics we see how trustworthy He is
cwt I went through a time - where I needed to come to the point where I accepted that people could not interfere with God's plan for my life.
Laurie Sometimes it is hard to ignore our feelings but if we have faith we will.
cwt I had always known that .... but when those in authority were making decisions that didn't seem right - it made me seek God in a new way to come to terms with this.
Laurie That is a good point cwt.
cwt God is awesome in handling the detours of our life!!
cwt He takes those situations that could seem so wrong and make something so amazing out of them.
blessing Matthew 18 talks about when a brother sins against you to go and show him his fault just the two of you, then if he doesn;'t respond to take others with you to talk with him So if our leaders in authority over us sin we are responsible to go and talk with them and folllow this process as well.
blessing This is difficult, because we like to avoid conflict
blessing but we are responsible to do what the Bible says
cwt This is a key turning point in the situation. Sometimes things are completely cleared up and misunderstandings brought to light
Laurie That is good but sometimes it is hard to confront.
blessing always hard to confront, but there are better ways to do it
blessing sometimes it is good to begin to discuss issues in a positve way and to not polorize, but to give alternate solutions to the problem
Laurie Good point.
cwt What are some ways we can make that step of confronting easier?
blessing it is always better to go in an encouraging way and to show appreciation, that way people do not get on the defensive
Laurie Don't be angry when we confront.
cwt One key thing is to not attack
blessing this tends to set a better atmosphere, and yes never never lose our cool!
cwt Asking questions or saying "I have been feeling and wonder if y ou could clarify?
blessing great poiont cwt, if we attack the other person goes on the defensive right away
cwt If necessary include a third party
blessing sometimes issues only have to do with miscommunciation
blessing but sometimes there needs to be a parting of ways in respect, like Paul and Barnabas
Laurie That is true. Sometimes we tend to jump to conclusions.
cwt We also misunderstand intentions!
blessing we sure do and wow can we ever get ourselves in trouble
cwt To understand why someone does something can completely change how we feel about it.
blessing also personality differences can cause us to go into conflict mode more easily
Laurie Yes. Sometimes they may not have gone about it the right way but their intentions were good.
cwt That sure changes our reaction.
blessing yes, we should always give them the benefit of the doubt, God gives us this all the time
cwt How do our various personalities affect our view of submission?
............................ Shey joined.............
blessing that is such a good question to discuss
cwt Hi Shey
blessing hi shey!
Shey Hi
blessing glad you could join us here
Shey thanks
Laurie I would think a strong-willed personality would have a more difficult time putting God in control of everything.
Laurie I tend to be a little more strong-willed than some people.
cwt We are just discussing how different personalities can be affected by the issue of submission?
blessing yes, and a strong willed personality may have a harder time getting others to submit to their authority as well
Laurie True
cwt I know for me when someone is overbearing and overpowering demanding submission - I discover rebellion I thought I had long grown out of.
blessing that type of personality needs to be tempered
Shey I'm that way too cwr
blessing you mean the claws come out?
blessing our reactions can be funny to differing personalities, and we always need to make sure the Holy Spirit is in control not us
cwt In that situation I can just completely pull away ... if necessary I can tow the line and appear to be responding, but in reality my heart doesn't go there.
cwt Are those reactions wrong?
cwt Personally I don't think so ... but what we do with that reaction is.
Shey maybe if your intent is to hurt the other person
blessing on the other hand, I also find it equally difficult to submit to a very meek authority figure who doesn't move along maybe as fast as I think things should be going, do any of you have that struggle?
cwt I totally agree with you blessing .... I find the same thing.
blessing I find this sometimes my hardest challeng
Laurie My husband is a very even-tempered sort of person. He is an excellent leader but I do find sometimes due to my personality I want things moving more quickly.
cwt .... or how about a "too busy" person who holds the ball and it is affecting you?
cwt If someone is too busy ... and you are waiting on them for information, help, and cannot move forward until they proceed.
cwt That can be terribly frustrating!
Laurie That drives me crazy. There has to be a balance. Sometimes the "too busy" people want everyone else that way.
blessing so they are juggling too much and you can't do your job effectively
cwt That is so true
blessing so frustrating, but that would need some confronting in my mind
Laurie True.
blessing in a loving way
cwt How do we deal with this?
cwt I know I try and rid or protect myself from situations like that.
Laurie We have had situations with our children where their friends want them going places all the time.
blessing if we express appreciation of all their capabilities, first, and also thank them for their vision or whatever, but then explain how you are being affected by it and give some sort of mutual solution where it is a win-win situation.
cwt If I rely on someone technically then I try and learn what I can ... or if I can control the situation - I seek someone who I know is dependable and has integrity
blessing I have had that challeng Laurie
cwt How do you handle that Laurie?
Laurie A lot of these kids came from homes where the parents were always too busy. Our kids do enjoy their family time.
blessing for times like that I had to sit my kids down and set some boundaries, like this day is job day, this time is homework time, this night is family night or whatever
blessing that is a challenge
Laurie We simply started saying no and mentioned to these parents that our kids like to have their family time.
blessing I am sorry girls but I have to run to an appointment now, this has been agreat conversation!
cwt It's good to let people know we have something up
blessing have a great day and God bless!
............................ blessing left.............
Laurie And if they are going places all the time we don't see them enough.
Laurie They seemed to not ask the kids out quite as much after that. But I don't think we offended anyone.
cwt Sometimes we consider family time as being flexible.
cwt I know ... but we don't really want them out all the time. In the long run the fact that they are not overly available is ok.
Laurie I think so too.
cwt Real life is like that for adults tool
cwt too!
cwt We are not available for all the fun stuff all the time.
cwt I know my kids sure respond better when they are balanced and have had more family time than friend time.
cwt They get out of sync and irritable when they are with friends too much.
Laurie Neither are we with my husband's travel schedule.
cwt Balance is always the key!
cwt Yet .... we are so prone towards being unbalanced.
Laurie I always think I have things organized, arranged and planned then someone else will throw the schedule out of kilter.
cwt That can be so frustrating.
cwt But when we have homes with lots of things going on ... there really is no choice but to have order and structure.
cwt Otherwise it is chaos.
cwt It amazes me how one thing can have such a domino affect on everything.
Laurie It is frustrating but I have learned to look at things one day at a time. Sometimes if I look too far ahead it is overwhelming.
cwt That is very helpful
Laurie domino affect is such a good choice of words.
cwt Why don't we pray together before we close .... how can we pray for one another? Anything specific?
cwt Please pray for this new chat time - that it will gain momentum. It always takes time to launch a new time.
Laurie Well, my husband is still an un-believer. I thought over Easter some of the messages would have gotten through to him. Now he is so busy with a new project that I am sure he hasn't given it any more thought.
cwt We will continue to pray .... the Holy Spirit is amazing Laurie - He can use the most unique situations to draw an individual to Him no matter how busy.
............................ Shey left.............
Laurie Lord, we ask that you would bring new ladies to this chat time. That they would seek you and grow in a relationship with you. In Jesus name, Amen.
cwt "Lord I come to you and I pray for Laurie's husband that you will guide and direct and draw him to yourself. That regardless of how busy he is that you would penetrate his heart and that he would receive you. In Jesus Name Amen"
cwt Well .. thanks so much for coming! You are so faithful.
Laurie Thank you. Bye for now. Have a good day!
